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snowback96
Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 691
Location: Cube 1495A
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 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| Author wrote: | | Well, just because you decide to become a PT, doesn't mean that you can't or won't become a frugal home base person at some point in life. One decision at one time will not necessarily exclude the other... Every decision has trade offs. Don't be stuck only in one option. Allow yourself the possibility of change. Take advantage of allowing yourself to do both, at different times. |
That's a good way to look at it. I can see myself become a PT for 5+ years while I get some of the travel bug out of my system, then opt for the home base approach. With any luck, the portfolio will grow during the PT years so I could be less concerned about the extra expenses of a home.
| Quote: | | We do own a place outright. I'm sure you can respect our privacy here, Snowback, in letting me not disclose too much about where we live or what we own... |
Sorry, I did not mean to pry. I'm just trying to make the numbers add up for my own situation.
| Quote: | If you choose a "taker," or someone whose "need requirement level" is high, it's possible that no amount of money would be enough. I know "love is blind," but try and keep your eyes open just a little bit  and find someone on a similar track as you! |
*LOL* In theory, that is great advise and I completely agree. In reality, there are very few women that could even remotely comprehend the ER and/or PT lifestyles. I guess I need to start hanging with a different crowd. As a matter of fact, I am very seriously considering either teaching English overseas or volunteering (e.g. Peace Corps) as a baby step into ER. It would be partly to reduce the shock to my system of no longer being chained to my office cube and partly to meet people that have not yet drank the toxic punch of Corporate America. If nothing else, I'm sure I'd find some good travel companions.
-snowback96
_________________
Bob Porter: Looks like you've been missing a lot of work lately.
Peter Gibbons: I wouldn't say I've been missing it, Bob! |
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peteyperson
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 2073
Location: SE Asia
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Hi Snow,
I'll add a few points of my own. I'm working slowly toward P/T in the distant future too.
I think it is helpful to travel, read Rough Guides and so forth, and draw-up your own budgets for different places. Budgets vary depending on your needs. The Kaderlis have indicated they spend around $35 a day in Chiang Mai, Thailand, whereas the Terhorsts spend $25. Which is right for you? Depends! Such a difference means a lot more or a lot less is needed. Prices of hotels in Paris can be as little as €45 or €100. Depends whether you need a phone, a TV, room service, etc.
Same should apply with a partner. I wouldn't use a 25% set amount. I would have a budget, figure which budget line items are duplicated - or somewhat increased - and rebudget. Once you have a real budget for a location this will give you a more realistic position. The reality of the 4%|25x spending is such that even small daily, weekly or monthly changes in spending can call for vast additional sums needed from what was originally calculated. One needs to be flexible as to your needs, but adding a second person into the plan is not a minor change! I do agree that there is a difference between a freeloader and a woman who perhaps comes with her own apartment she could later sell to fund FIRE, etc. One may need to make a decision as to what kind of woman is acceptable for you. Funding two people may take an extra decade of work to achieve. Is this worth it? Should men still have to do this when women can now work full-time and earn quite well in their own right?
In terms of security, I agree with your concerns there. I don't think it is safe to log into any financial/investing related accounts via a cybercafe. The security is just not there. One can stay in a hotel with international dial but that will boost your accommodation costs, connectivity costs and it may not always be easy to connect in each different country. I think that suits either someone who is very technically-savvy, someone who travels on business a lot, or someone with a fixed location most of the year with an ISP setup. Not logging into brokerage accounts while away.
The alternative of course is to place an international call to your brokerage from land line in a safe location where you aren't being overheard. If staying in a guesthouse that may not be too easy either from a payphone in the common hallway, but I think one can work around that. At worst, one could stump for a pricier hotel for a night just to get access to a quiet place to make a landline call. When one considers the cost of a breach of security, it could be well worth the cost. Automation is also handy too. If one owns a collection of index funds, one might not need to contact the brokerage all too often. So one can set things up ahead of time to limit the yearly contact needed to manage financial affairs if almost always on-the-road. One could setup six months of cash in an account with a credit or debit card, and replenish that bi-yearly, for instance. If doing that I would want a backup plan in case that got cloned or stolen. Some cash elsewhere or travelers' checks.
Those are my thoughts today. Be interested to hear some of your thoughts.
Petey
| snowback96 wrote: | Two weeks ago, I purchased and read the Kaderli book ("The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement"). It was very inspirational and really helped fill in some of the gaps from the Terhorst book (especially re: travel adventure). It has nudged me even closer to pulling the trigger on FIRE.
Since I have noticed that the authors are posting on this site, I was wondering if I could ask a few questions?
1) I am trying to decide whether I should become a perpetual traveler or keep a frugal "home base". You mention that you keep a place in the States for only a few dollars a day. I was wondering how you do this? Is it a trailer or a condo? Can I assume you own the place outright? I would think that you would need to also count the lost investment returns as a "cost" of keeping the place. Even a $50k mobile home costs at least $2k when you figure you've lost the 4% SWR on the principal. Do you include this "cost" in your daily spending figure?
2) When you calculate $56.77/day, do you include everything including all your "home base" expenses plus travel expenses? Honestly, the thought of paying for a place that I rarely use bothers me a bit; hence my consideration of the PT lifestyle.
3) I am currently single and trying to price how much $$$ I should budget per day. I also wonder what happens if I later get married and need my nest egg to support 2 of us. Obviously your budget was for 2 people. Some of your expenses would be nearly double that of a singleton (e.g. food, health, flights), while others would be almost identical (e.g. hotels/housing). I am guessing that including a spouse in the budget probably increases the overall budget by about 25% vs. a single person. Does that sound reasonable?
4) I'm curious about the security issue in cybercafe's. Obviously, you must log into bank accounts and brokerage accounts from public cafe's. Is that prudent? Does it make a big difference using your own PC or using the public terminals? We may not be talking about nuclear secrets, but it would be devastating to have your financial accounts looted because of some unscrupulous cafe owner.
I know these are lots of questions and I really appreicate your insight. Again, thanks for the book!
--snowback96 |
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snowback96
Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 691
Location: Cube 1495A
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| peteyperson wrote: |
The reality of the 4%|25x spending is such that even small daily, weekly or monthly changes in spending can call for vast additional sums needed from what was originally calculated. |
Yes, and it is especially daunting when you're a bit on the conservative side like myself. I am aiming to err on the side of caution. I would like to be able to "survive" on a 3% SWR especially in the early years. That might mean more time in Thailand and less in USA. Any additional performance could be used later in life (e.g. to establish a home base).
| Quote: | | I do agree that there is a difference between a freeloader and a woman who perhaps comes with her own apartment she could later sell to fund FIRE, etc. One may need to make a decision as to what kind of woman is acceptable for you. Funding two people may take an extra decade of work to achieve. Is this worth it? Should men still have to do this when women can now work full-time and earn quite well in their own right? |
In theory, I completely agree. I'm just being realistic in that very few women (or men for that matter), practice LBYM. We are a rare breed. At best, you might meet someone that got lucky in real estate. Tough call. It would be nice to have someone to share your travel adventures with, but at what price.
Perhaps we need a special dating service or an online "social" for FIRE singles!?!? *LOL*
-snowback96
_________________
Bob Porter: Looks like you've been missing a lot of work lately.
Peter Gibbons: I wouldn't say I've been missing it, Bob! |
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peteyperson
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 2073
Location: SE Asia
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Snow,
Therein lies the problem with dating! Finding a woman who is pragmatic with money is a challenge. Finding one willing to relocate abroad, travel, leave behind what she's known etc.. I expect I might end up having relationships where I am now - but without marriage - and if the person I'm with won't make the leap, then I go anyway. Meet other women on-the-road and just play it by ear. I'm already 34 with no long-term relationship in sight, not really into kids per se, so I don't see myself living the conventional life relationship-wise anyway.
Petey
| snowback96 wrote: | | peteyperson wrote: |
The reality of the 4%|25x spending is such that even small daily, weekly or monthly changes in spending can call for vast additional sums needed from what was originally calculated. |
Yes, and it is especially daunting when you're a bit on the conservative side like myself. I am aiming to err on the side of caution. I would like to be able to "survive" on a 3% SWR especially in the early years. That might mean more time in Thailand and less in USA. Any additional performance could be used later in life (e.g. to establish a home base).
| Quote: | | I do agree that there is a difference between a freeloader and a woman who perhaps comes with her own apartment she could later sell to fund FIRE, etc. One may need to make a decision as to what kind of woman is acceptable for you. Funding two people may take an extra decade of work to achieve. Is this worth it? Should men still have to do this when women can now work full-time and earn quite well in their own right? |
In theory, I completely agree. I'm just being realistic in that very few women (or men for that matter), practice LBYM. We are a rare breed. At best, you might meet someone that got lucky in real estate. Tough call. It would be nice to have someone to share your travel adventures with, but at what price.
Perhaps we need a special dating service or an online "social" for FIRE singles!?!? *LOL*
-snowback96 |
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sailor
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 42
Location: GA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I'm just being realistic in that very few women (or men for that matter), practice LBYM. We are a rare breed.
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I disagree. Maybe you are probably too centrered on Western culture (and big cities)? 
Few countries I personally visited and think people mostly live there LBYM are for example:
Japan, Poland, Bulgaria, Chile, Germany, Turkey, Fiji.
Also have a look at rural parts of US, you'll find a lot of frugal people there.
sailor |
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Author
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 227
Location: World wide
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Snowback: | Quote: | | LOL* In theory, that is great advise and I completely agree. In reality, there are very few women that could even remotely comprehend the ER and/or PT lifestyles. I guess I need to start hanging with a different crowd. |
Snowback, I do understand.. However, if I could give some advice, you might try the male-dreaded-but-very-powerful-influence of having a conversation (  !!) with the women you date. All too often, we as human beings head off in one direction because another equally or more appealing one hasn’t been offered yet. True, women have nesting instincts that are different from men. That doesn’t mean that we don’t also have a need for freedom or adventure as well. 
When my husband first approached me about retiring early, and having to sell our home, of course I balked at that idea! However, the more we spoke of personal freedom to go, do and be, adventure in a variety of circumstances, and the trade offs we would have to make in order to have both our high maintenance lifestyle AND the freedom above mentioned, I realized I was not willing to work another dozen + years to have them both. (I may still be working, had I chosen that path…)
I would venture that most women have not ever considered those other options… or those options have not been presented in a convincing manner. (True, my husband excels at salesmanship, and he is REALLY cute, so, maybe that was a factor?) 
Snowback: | Quote: | | As a matter of fact, I am very seriously considering either teaching English overseas or volunteering (e.g. Peace Corps) as a baby step into ER. It would be partly to reduce the shock to my system of no longer being chained to my office cube and partly to meet people that have not yet drank the toxic punch of Corporate America. If nothing else, I'm sure I'd find some good travel companions. |
No doubt. Follow your dreams, do what you love, and you will find other people interested in the same values you have. Good idea!
| Quote: | | In theory, I completely agree. I'm just being realistic in that very few women (or men for that matter), practice LBYM. We are a rare breed. |
I may have to agree that we are a rare breed indeed. However, I practiced LBYM since I was a kid. I did it long before I met my husband. I must admit that we were a bit wide eyed when we found we were on the same financial page… In my own defense, I knew I didn’t want to be with a man who couldn’t control his own finances… I pull my own weight, and expected “my” man to do the same… He didn’t have to be rich, but he did have to possess ambition.
Petey | Quote: |
One could setup six months of cash in an account with a credit or debit card, and replenish that bi-yearly, for instance. If doing that I would want a backup plan in case that got cloned or stolen. Some cash elsewhere or travelers' checks. |
The idea of having cash in an account and replenishing it bi-yearly is a good idea, Petey.  Do you do much foreign travel? Carrying 6 months worth of cash, in our experience would be prohibitive, and a real mental worry. Talk about thievery!  I believe there is more chance of the maid, repair man or local burglar coming in your room and taking your cash than of some unscrupulous cybercafe owner lifting your private info off your cyber visit. (where in your room do you hide it? Keep it in the office safe? Taking it in and out, in and out brings attention to you when in a foreign country… Do you wear it on your body? What if you are on the move? How big of a wad of cash is that 6 month‘s worth?) .
In the countries that we visit, a traveler’s check would be near to useless.  Most of these places, including some hotels, can’t make change for a small bill, let alone a foreign travel check. Having travelers checks tie you to a bank and to banking hours. That can be very inconvenient, believe me! Weekends, local holidays when they are closed… We use an ATM (open all the time) and get local currency every so many days.
Petey: | Quote: | | The alternative of course is to place an international call to your brokerage from land line in a safe location where you aren't being overheard. |
Petey m’man, I realize that I am challenging you here, and please take it with good humor. In the locations where I have seen international call phones, most are open air, with no privacy. Or the connection is so faint, one resorts to shouting anyway, privacy or not. And then, of course, there are those nasty 800 numbers which don’t work outside our United States! Placing long distance calls in a foreign country is a pain in the pitutie. It’s not a matter of simply dialing 1-800-give-me-cash. There are business hours and business days (Thailand is 14 hours ahead, for instance) one must think of as well…. Maybe if one travels from Ohio to New York, this works… or from Florida to Texas… International is much more complicated.
Petey:
| Quote: | | One can stay in a hotel with international dial but that will boost your accommodation costs, connectivity costs and it may not always be easy to connect in each different country…At worst, one could stump for a pricier hotel for a night just to get access to a quiet place to make a landline call. When one considers the cost of a breach of security, it could be well worth the cost. |
Yup. This ties you to high end hotels… and one’s money can be drained without delay with this choice. And this method ties you to worry too.. And running around just to get to one’s money.. But then, each to his own. You know, we may just have a philosophical difference operating here... Good discussion, tho'
Akaisha
Author, THE ADVENTURER'S GUIDE TO EARLY RETIREMENT
_________________
Self-sufficiency builds confidence.
www.RetireEarlyLifestyle.com |
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wanderer
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1598
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:06 am Post subject: |
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Great discussion, Akaisha. I'll try to get the book for our library (I work in the Middle East).
Re: significant other's frugality: I was fortunate to find someone who is very frugal. There may be other issues for us, unfortunately. Hard to get it all in one package. Consider yourself lucky with your sitch, IMO. |
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Author
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 227
Location: World wide
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Snowback: | Quote: | | Perhaps we need a special dating service or an online "social" for FIRE singles!?!? *LOL* |
You know, Snowback, I was giving this some more thought, and I do believe you have a good idea there. Someone, somewhere, could get that going. FIRE Matchmaking. Perfect.
Wanderer:
| Quote: | | Great discussion, Akaisha. I'll try to get the book for our library (I work in the Middle East). |
Thanks Wanderer! How generous of you! And glad you have viewed and participated here..
Wanderer: | Quote: | | Re: significant other's frugality: I was fortunate to find someone who is very frugal. There may be other issues for us, unfortunately. Hard to get it all in one package. Consider yourself lucky with your sitch, IMO. |
IMHO, there are always issues. Perfection only exists in fantasy! I figure if we can get about 80% near or on the same page, we are doing fantastic.
For the 2+ blissful decades my husband and I have been together, one of our mottos have been "If two people always agree, then one of them is uneccesary" That has helped us through countless, uh, high volume discussions
Don't forget, when you want someone strong as a partner, they absolutely will have a different opinion on occasion. If you want someone more maleable, then you will find yourself often (or always) taking the lead, and that, too, can become tiresome. There are always trade offs.
Excuse me for playing Dr. Phil here, guys...
Akaisha
Author, THE ADVENTURER'S GUIDE TO EARLY RETIREMENT
_________________
Self-sufficiency builds confidence.
www.RetireEarlyLifestyle.com |
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wanderer
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 1598
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Hi Akaisha and, believe me, I need a lotta counseling!
That being said, sometimes there is a particular issue (a sore point from the last relationship [18 year marriage]) that is insurmountable. I'm enjoying the good times but trying not to have any illusions about someone's ability or desire to change...
I think they'd say the same abt me. |
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snowback96
Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 691
Location: Cube 1495A
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| Author wrote: |
Snowback, I do understand.. However, if I could give some advice, you might try the male-dreaded-but-very-powerful-influence of having a conversation ( !!) with the women you date. All too often, we as human beings head off in one direction because another equally or more appealing one hasn’t been offered yet. True, women have nesting instincts that are different from men. That doesn’t mean that we don’t also have a need for freedom or adventure as well.
When my husband first approached me about retiring early, and having to sell our home, of course I balked at that idea! However, the more we spoke of personal freedom to go, do and be, adventure in a variety of circumstances, and the trade offs we would have to make in order to have both our high maintenance lifestyle AND the freedom above mentioned, I realized I was not willing to work another dozen + years to have them both. (I may still be working, had I chosen that path…)
I would venture that most women have not ever considered those other options… or those options have not been presented in a convincing manner. (True, my husband excels at salesmanship, and he is REALLY cute, so, maybe that was a factor?) |
Ah, but there is a difference here. Y'all met and tied the knot before the wide-eyed notion of ER ever entered the picture. At one point you had a conventional life. And while a "dreaded conversation" is a good opportunity to present the ER case in a convincing manner, 99.9% of women are likely to have tuned out before you get through the initial pitch.
When you explain to a woman how you don't want kids (strike 1), prefer to not own a house (strike 2), and want to ER and travel the world (stike 3).... well, let's just say that she is very likely to walk away mid-sentence. (I don't even have to bring up religion... that's generally another buzz kill... also known as "strike 4".)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. I'm just being honest about the reality of the situation. And I think that is okay. You just have to do what you wanna do. Just by virtue of leaving the conventional 9-5 world behind, you are likely to significantly improve your chances meeting somebody special by hanging with the right crowd.
The good thing is that I now have a decent understanding of what I want (and accept the fact that there are slim pickins out there). This is much better than not really knowing what I wanted (like 5 years ago) but still feeling inadeuate because I could not find it.
-snowback96
_________________
Bob Porter: Looks like you've been missing a lot of work lately.
Peter Gibbons: I wouldn't say I've been missing it, Bob! |
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Author
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 227
Location: World wide
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Wanderer said: | Quote: | | ..believe me, I need a lotta counseling! |
Wanderer, we all do! I think it would be great to just have "emotional and mental tune ups" like we change the oil in our cars and rotate the tires. Would save us a lot of grief later on down the line... Hang in there!
Snowback said:
| Quote: | | Just by virtue of leaving the conventional 9-5 world behind, you are likely to significantly improve your chances meeting somebody special by hanging with the right crowd. |
There's a lot to be said for that... For example, if we don't really want to be with a bar fly, why are we hangin' out in bars? (no offense against beer, or martinis or anything, guys... ) But I hope you get my drift. There have been several times in my life I thought I was "hanging out with people other than who shared my values..." adjustment needed!
Snowback: | Quote: | | When you explain to a woman how you don't want kids (strike 1), prefer to not own a house (strike 2), and want to ER and travel the world (stike 3).... well, let's just say that she is very likely to walk away mid-sentence. |
Yeah, I suppose most women want kids... but some don't, or prefer to do other "child related things" like volunteer or teach or do Big Sister... -- and this is definitely an area that needs to be worked out, no doubt. No point in getting married thinking one of you will "give THAT idea up" and then it doesn't work out...
RE: owning a house -- I think that women want security of some kind. "owning a home" is very symbolic of that security.. Be creative! How can you give/offer that security in other ways? (work out your numbers? - money saved on housing costs = more fun, adventure, travel, freedom, experience, options?)
I keep thinking of this couple we met in Ecuador -- they took their "offbeat" ideas, made an ecological retreat in the middle of the Andean mountains, and are making their dreams come true. You never know. Maybe you need to find a different type of woman all together - one who is not "married" to the house, car, and status machines... They are out there!
The more you know who YOU are, and what's important to YOU, the easier it will be to find someone compatible. Honest. Then you won't need to keep up the "lie."
The best of luck to ya, Snowback..
Hey Guys, this has been great. My husband and I are leaving for Asia in a couple of hours, and will be in transit for the next 30! I will check back here in a couple of days, and see what's new.
The best to all of you, and in all ways, and thanks again, for this opportunity to share and learn about you. And thanks, Raddr!
Akaisha
Author, THE ADVENTURER'S GUIDE TO EARLY RETIREMENT
_________________
Self-sufficiency builds confidence.
www.RetireEarlyLifestyle.com |
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raddr
Site Admin
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 4735
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Akaisha,
Thanks, it's great having you here. Have a wonderful trip and please do check in from time to time if you can.
_________________
"I brew therefore I am." 
-raddr |
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peteyperson
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 2073
Location: SE Asia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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Hi K,
Hmmm.. fair enough. So neither approach has good security. This would lead me to go to Thailand for a month, rent a studio with direct dial and opt for that method. Privacy there and also direct internet via dial-up. One can buy a 15-day unlimited usage ecard in a shopping mall in BKK for B160. A one month rental inc bills is around B11,500 for something nice with a pool. Works out as cheap as most places in Chiang Mai with much less security. At present, that is my default position with foreign (outside of Thailand) travel beyond that where I can afford the expense.
I wasn't suggesting walking around with six months cash. I meant in a bank account one can tap via debit card, visa etc., and then you only need to contact the brokerage(s) bi-yearly to replenish the balance in the account by selling shares, transferring dividends received. There has been mention before of using a debit card from the money market account of your brokerage, but this method is intent on reducing the risk from credit card / debit card fraud in restaurants etc (a recent rampant problem in Thailand), and to cap the loss beyond what the CC/banks companies themselves would cover. It is your own kind of stop loss. I'm not sure how safe any idea it is to use a debit card from a money market account.
I'd welcome your thoughts on my follow-up/new comments.
Petey
| Author wrote: |
Petey | Quote: |
One could setup six months of cash in an account with a credit or debit card, and replenish that bi-yearly, for instance. If doing that I would want a backup plan in case that got cloned or stolen. Some cash elsewhere or travelers' checks. |
The idea of having cash in an account and replenishing it bi-yearly is a good idea, Petey. Do you do much foreign travel? Carrying 6 months worth of cash, in our experience would be prohibitive, and a real mental worry. Talk about thievery! I believe there is more chance of the maid, repair man or local burglar coming in your room and taking your cash than of some unscrupulous cybercafe owner lifting your private info off your cyber visit. (where in your room do you hide it? Keep it in the office safe? Taking it in and out, in and out brings attention to you when in a foreign country… Do you wear it on your body? What if you are on the move? How big of a wad of cash is that 6 month‘s worth?) .
In the countries that we visit, a traveler’s check would be near to useless. Most of these places, including some hotels, can’t make change for a small bill, let alone a foreign travel check. Having travelers checks tie you to a bank and to banking hours. That can be very inconvenient, believe me! Weekends, local holidays when they are closed… We use an ATM (open all the time) and get local currency every so many days.
Petey: | Quote: | | The alternative of course is to place an international call to your brokerage from land line in a safe location where you aren't being overheard. |
Petey m’man, I realize that I am challenging you here, and please take it with good humor. In the locations where I have seen international call phones, most are open air, with no privacy. Or the connection is so faint, one resorts to shouting anyway, privacy or not. And then, of course, there are those nasty 800 numbers which don’t work outside our United States! Placing long distance calls in a foreign country is a pain in the pitutie. It’s not a matter of simply dialing 1-800-give-me-cash. There are business hours and business days (Thailand is 14 hours ahead, for instance) one must think of as well…. Maybe if one travels from Ohio to New York, this works… or from Florida to Texas… International is much more complicated.
Petey:
| Quote: | | One can stay in a hotel with international dial but that will boost your accommodation costs, connectivity costs and it may not always be easy to connect in each different country…At worst, one could stump for a pricier hotel for a night just to get access to a quiet place to make a landline call. When one considers the cost of a breach of security, it could be well worth the cost. |
Yup. This ties you to high end hotels… and one’s money can be drained without delay with this choice. And this method ties you to worry too.. And running around just to get to one’s money.. But then, each to his own. You know, we may just have a philosophical difference operating here... Good discussion, tho'
Akaisha
Author, THE ADVENTURER'S GUIDE TO EARLY RETIREMENT |
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peteyperson
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 2073
Location: SE Asia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| snowback96 wrote: | Ah, but there is a difference here. Y'all met and tied the knot before the wide-eyed notion of ER ever entered the picture. At one point you had a conventional life. And while a "dreaded conversation" is a good opportunity to present the ER case in a convincing manner, 99.9% of women are likely to have tuned out before you get through the initial pitch.
When you explain to a woman how you don't want kids (strike 1), prefer to not own a house (strike 2), and want to ER and travel the world (stike 3).... well, let's just say that she is very likely to walk away mid-sentence. (I don't even have to bring up religion... that's generally another buzz kill... also known as "strike 4".)
-snowback96 |
Snow,
You are so right! 
All of those points are buzz kills. When I think about myself, I feel more and more than kids are not for me. If there are, they'll be something way down the line. One makes choices on spending now in order to achieve FIRE later. This becomes not understandable for a woman to grasp. It becomes quite simply a hinderance to her (and her expectation that you) will be willing to spend more money on entertainment and vacations. Fun stuff. Today. Right now.
If you weren't fortunate enough to buy a home in London before property became completely unaffordable for singletons (I'm in that category) then there is an even wider gulf between her available spending cash and the cash someone paying much higher rent and/or trying to save for the future will have available. There then becomes a gulf of difference her lifestyle and yours.
Later in a foreign country it might well be different but in interesting ways. In Thailand I suspect farangs will be considered wealthy and a target for women who see that as an attraction to freerider status. In a practical sense most women won't earn enough to create FIRE for themselves given the cost of living there vs. average income level. i.e. what makes it theoretically possible for me is higher per capita income vs Thailand, and currency exchange differentials.
Petey |
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Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 227
Location: World wide
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Guys,
I'm back. 34 hours of travel! Had to check in, though.
Hey Petey! I will discuss with my husband your previous comments RE: the security, debit cards and money issues before I reply. Between the two of our jetlagged brains, perhaps we can come up with something inteligible...
Snowback wrote: | Quote: | | Ah, but there is a difference here. Y'all met and tied the knot before the wide-eyed notion of ER ever entered the picture. At one point you had a conventional life. And while a "dreaded conversation" is a good opportunity to present the ER case in a convincing manner, 99.9% of women are likely to have tuned out before you get through the initial pitch. |
Petey wrote: | Quote: | | All of those points are buzz kills. When I think about myself, I feel more and more than kids are not for me. If there are, they'll be something way down the line. One makes choices on spending now in order to achieve FIRE later. This becomes not understandable for a woman to grasp. It becomes quite simply a hinderance to her (and her expectation that you) will be willing to spend more money on entertainment and vacations. Fun stuff. Today. Right now. |
A couple of points I would like to make here... Yes, when Billy and I met, we (sort of) had a conventional life - I was working and going to night school. He was working at night in a locally famous restaurant.
But we were kids, really. I didn't have my whole life planned out. I was never that kind of person...
What I liked about him was not his wallet. Let that sink in a bit. (And don't be silly here..!)
What I liked was his sense of adventure, his creativity, his mental brilliance. The fact that he could cook for us really helped in eating well for less. What we did for entertainment was go camping, hiking, biking, -- that kind of thing. Cheap stuff - even back then.
We were both gypsy renegades in a way. I was looking for a fellow traveler for years, and never found one, until him...
So maybe you guys are simply "lookin' fer love in all the wrong places" or something. 
If you define yourself as a wallet, you cannot really get mad at a woman who sees you as one... (ouch) At the risk of sounding profound here -- who are you besides your "earning capacity?" What other things do you bring to the table besides your income tax bracket? 
Many women see beyond the wallet. Are you generous of spirit? Can you hold a conversation? Are you handy to have around? Insightful? Well read? Are you FUN? Can you dance? Have a sense of humor? (are you willing to like her parents? shhhh.....)
Any comments?
Akaisha
Author, THE ADVENTURER'S GUIDE TO EARLY RETIREMENT
_________________
Self-sufficiency builds confidence.
www.RetireEarlyLifestyle.com |
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